tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post4354353674713710680..comments2024-03-03T19:52:17.901+00:00Comments on ReARM ~ RedNev's Blog: Liverpool Snowball meltsNeville Grundyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10923209266005338452noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-23962489823529976492016-05-24T11:11:51.477+01:002016-05-24T11:11:51.477+01:00So do I.
Disagree with me as much as you like - ...So do I. <br /><br />Disagree with me as much as you like - that is fine. <br /><br />Just don't suggest I have a hidden agenda, when I do not. <br /><br />Anyway, the whole issue has now moved on, as the meeting took place on Sunday. Apparently it was well-attended; I'll be interested to see what happens next.RedNevhttp://rednev-rearm.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-6717111913057909142016-05-24T11:01:28.434+01:002016-05-24T11:01:28.434+01:00I have no agenda Nev but I do like to see fair pla...I have no agenda Nev but I do like to see fair play. John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-32403709561440873282016-05-24T10:27:21.942+01:002016-05-24T10:27:21.942+01:00What's your agenda, John? Trying to suggest co...What's your agenda, John? Trying to suggest conspiracies where none exists. No I didn't deny a fact. Why would I? Just another unsubstantiated insinuation. But then you and all the others who have come here to criticise what I've written have produced no argument to say I was wrong. All you lot have done is cast aspersions on my integrity without a shred of evidence in support. If the best you can come up is that I'm friendly with the organiser of Snowball - but without a shred of proof that that friendship has had any effect on what I've written - then you really are clutching at straws.<br /><br />Okay, this is my agenda:<br /><br />MerseyAle as it stands is one of the best CAMRA magazines I have come across, and I do get see quite a few different ones.<br /><br />Snowball is a successful, if very small-scale, campaign getting new people to try real ale, often women and young people. I happen to think that is a worthwhile thing to do.<br /><br />The current chair has dismissed the mag as (in her words) not for for purpose, and Snowball as a drinking club (also her words). I think she's wrong on both counts.<br /><br />There: you have it - my agenda.<br /><br />If I agreed with the chair, I would not be defending either, regardless of whether or not the people involved were friends. If you think that unlikely: firstly you don't know me; and secondly, don't judge me by I can only assume are your own standards. <br />RedNevhttp://rednev-rearm.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-5088598685184188472016-05-24T07:47:35.937+01:002016-05-24T07:47:35.937+01:00I note though that you didn't deny you are goo...I note though that you didn't deny you are good friends with the person who started the Snowball event. And while it may have won an award I see that was in 2012 - things can change in four years.John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-70966761098746196982016-05-23T12:21:31.479+01:002016-05-23T12:21:31.479+01:00I have done my own assessment of the issues, and I...I have done my own assessment of the issues, and I certainly would not simply report one set of moans. Actually, CL, if you'd read everything I've written, you'd know that I have seen the e-mail correspondence (which you have not) from the branch chair - not only that, I have briefly quoted from it elsewhere on this blog. Her hostility to the mag and Snowball was made crystal clear from the outset. I disagreed with her assessment, rather than, as you suggest, sided with one side over another. I have no reason to do that: I'm not an officer of CAMRA, I'm not a member of Liverpool branch, and I have never had involvement in writing the mag or in Snowball. <br /><br />It's unlike you to get something so badly wrong.RedNevhttp://rednev-rearm.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-60516526688764945172016-05-23T11:18:32.952+01:002016-05-23T11:18:32.952+01:00you have only reported the rumour and moans of one...you have only reported the rumour and moans of one side and not sought the views of the other.<br /><br />I have no side, you clearly do.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-5906478836049858222016-05-23T10:47:02.993+01:002016-05-23T10:47:02.993+01:00Yet more insinuation from the brave, anonymous Hob...Yet more insinuation from the brave, anonymous Hob. And, yet again, not a single real argument against what I've written. Even though my supposed agenda is so clear, I note you can't spell out what it is.<br /><br />You clearly don't know me at all. Let's be radical and quote some facts: Snowball won a national CAMRA award for being an innovative way of bringing new people to real ale. I understand you don't approve of it, but - like it or not - national CAMRA did, and we are talking about a CAMRA initiative here, remember. Your disagreement isn't just with me here, or with the organisers of Snowball; it is with the national body too.<br /><br />I have never taken part in a Snowball activity, nor in the organising of one. I don't belong to Liverpool Branch, and I hold no positions in CAMRA at all. It is clear, therefore, that I have no vested interest whatsoever in whether Snowball continues or not. If it ended, it wouldn't make the slightest difference to me. So there's no hidden agenda. I'm reporting about what's happening, and no one who defends what's going on, yourself included, has cited a single fact that contradicts anything I've written. You all just resort to hints and innuendo. RedNevhttp://rednev-rearm.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-21229168491527148962016-05-23T08:39:30.637+01:002016-05-23T08:39:30.637+01:00RedNev is good friends with the person who started...RedNev is good friends with the person who started the snowball event, so its perfectly clear what his agenda is. TheHobnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-64055184244527570482016-05-22T13:31:29.900+01:002016-05-22T13:31:29.900+01:00I am not a member of the branch in question and I ...I am not a member of the branch in question and I hold no position CAMRA at all. In a sense, one can argue that no one can be a truly unbiased observer - and that includes you.RedNevhttp://rednev-rearm.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-30091931560885179772016-05-21T13:03:25.448+01:002016-05-21T13:03:25.448+01:00It's in human nature to be defensive when atta...It's in human nature to be defensive when attacked, and your comments have included that I'm not an honest broker, I'm washing dirty linen in public, I'm stirring the pot, and that I have an agenda. None of these is accurate. Branch activities are not secret, and any CAMRA member can attend any meeting of any branch. It follows therefore that any CAMRA member can write about the activities of any branch. I am completely in my rights, and I have no agenda. If you think I have, what is it? Because I've no idea. I'm reporting facts after speaking to a number of people who are directly involved, and I have seen some of the e-mails from the chair, including the one stating that the mag is not fit for purpose (exact words).<br /><br />When I began writing this blog in 2009, I said that, "I'll write about anything from the worlds of music and beer that catches my eye". Writing about an issue affecting the biggest CAMRA branch in the area is clearly within my blog's remit.RedNevhttp://rednev-rearm.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-13493444143754868362016-05-21T12:41:02.612+01:002016-05-21T12:41:02.612+01:00Very defensive aren't you? I meant just that. ...Very defensive aren't you? I meant just that. As Cookie has pointed out you don't give the impression of being an unbiased observer and while there will inevitably be two sides to all of this you have only presented one of them.<br /><br />It's up for you to decide whether it's your place but for this outside observer you appear to be stirring the pot unnecessarily.John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-38459764056391498862016-05-21T12:32:28.971+01:002016-05-21T12:32:28.971+01:00"he's not exactly playing honest broker h..."he's not exactly playing honest broker here."<br /><br />I find that insulting: the onus is on you to explain that unsubstantiated comment.<br /><br />What I have written follows discussion with several people who are involved, plus I have seen some of the e-mail correspondence from the chair of the committee. As for it not being my place - why not? Only someone with something to hide would want me to shut up.RedNevhttp://rednev-rearm.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-36761978180142082042016-05-21T10:27:12.596+01:002016-05-21T10:27:12.596+01:00Yes but I really don't think it is for Nev to ...Yes but I really don't think it is for Nev to speculate and question in this way. If I was on the Committee of Liverpool CAMRA I'd be well pissed off with this.<br /><br />It's also worth remembering that we are only getting one side of this argument so he's not exactly playing honest broker here.John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-7936436594741070762016-05-21T09:44:06.268+01:002016-05-21T09:44:06.268+01:00One might say that a branch chairman would say tha...One might say that a branch chairman would say that, wouldn't he:) But surely the answer to your question is self-evident. It's exactly because Nev is outside of the branch that he can speculate and question what is going on without being accused of playing internal politics. Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-89863684363099889652016-05-20T16:51:00.283+01:002016-05-20T16:51:00.283+01:00Snowball events are invite only free piss ups?
2 ...Snowball events are invite only free piss ups?<br /><br />2 questions.<br /><br />Why don't all branches do it?<br /><br />Can I come?<br /><br />I love free grog me.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-90556242731019224962016-05-20T16:44:11.266+01:002016-05-20T16:44:11.266+01:00Can't have people drinking beer and enjoying t...Can't have people drinking beer and enjoying themselves at CAMRA events, can we?Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-68675092938212313132016-05-20T16:35:56.114+01:002016-05-20T16:35:56.114+01:00that you are #TeamOldGuard and not #TeamNewGuard
...that you are #TeamOldGuard and not #TeamNewGuard<br /><br />that you are not an unbiased observer.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-72306178750184534072016-05-20T16:28:16.278+01:002016-05-20T16:28:16.278+01:00What I can't understand Nev is why you keep wa...What I can't understand Nev is why you keep washing Liverpool CAMRA's dirty linen in public (entertaining though it is). It's not as though it's your own branch and I can't help feeling you have some sort of agenda here.John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-46592669849329782162016-05-20T14:33:12.157+01:002016-05-20T14:33:12.157+01:00"No change on the habits of a lifetime in thi..."No change on the habits of a lifetime in this blog". So you have read all 1258 posts on this blog, have you? No, you haven't: you are just making pompous statements about it, and that doesn't constitute telling the truth. In fact, I have spent quite a lot of time finding out the facts - so that's one inaccuracy by you for starters. <br /><br />All I get from people who defend what's going on in Liverpool Branch is indignant rebuttals and casual insinuations about my integrity. I don't belong to Liverpool Branch and have no personal involvement in the issues. I am reporting what I have been told by several people who are involved.<br /><br />However, I note how your snide comment about my blog is bravely made from behind a cloak of anonymity, as are the others. I conclude that you don't have the courage of your convictions.RedNevhttp://rednev-rearm.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-17959387161617143202016-05-20T14:01:49.857+01:002016-05-20T14:01:49.857+01:00No change on the habits of a lifetime in this blog...No change on the habits of a lifetime in this blog -- no attempt to get the facts. Snowballs actually ticked some big boxes marked discrimination. Those who were invited enjoyed the free beer and said it was wonderful -- those who were not allowed to attend had other views on the matter. less red bullshithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11456619905001551909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-83349957027920092152016-05-20T11:46:01.114+01:002016-05-20T11:46:01.114+01:00Sorry, I don't get the second sentence.Sorry, I don't get the second sentence.RedNevhttp://rednev-rearm.blogspot.co.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-10935607929165242962016-05-20T10:22:42.905+01:002016-05-20T10:22:42.905+01:00Nice one Cookie.Nice one Cookie.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8285162121291357473.post-63891853428423013882016-05-20T09:37:55.373+01:002016-05-20T09:37:55.373+01:00I like these episodes of Game of Beards. Keep it u...I like these episodes of Game of Beards. Keep it up. Especially the perspective that you've picked your side.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.com